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The inner Scorsese

Interview, Jan, 1998 by Graham Fuller

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GF: He's more of an observer than a participant. The film opens with shots of the mandala sand paintings end his eye opening.

MS: Exactly. The sand painters are inside his bead in a way. Then, as his eye opens, the camera turns, like it turns on the shot of Janet Leigh's dead body in Psycho [1960].

GF: You repeat that images of him emerging from sleep a couple of times.

MS: I think that sort of shot, although sometimes self-conscious, creates the feeling of being closer to the main character's perception, so that you're really seeing the story through his eyes. I did it in Taxi Driver too. I always think of that shot in Rebel Without a Cause [1955] where you're placed in the position of James Dean on the couch seeing his father come in wearing an apron, and Dean tells him to take it off. I really felt for Dean at that point.

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GF: You said earlier that you don't necessarily embrace Buddhism. Did it rub off on you at all when you were making the film?

MS: I think some of it did. That doesn't mean I didn't get frustrated or angry while shooting, but I think I was able to handle it better. Only once or twice did I became hysterical over production problems, and then it took me an hour or two to calm down. But I think I can deal with anger a little better so that it doesn't kill me, I hope. There were some personal things going on in my life when I made the film: My mother was passing away. I'm just at that time of life. I'm in middle age, and the old generation goes, and you become the older generation. And the world turns. I don't fight it anymore - it is what it is.

GF: Do you think Buddhism is catching on in America because of the spiritual void that opened up in the '80s?

MS: Sure. Take my last picture, Casino: I hate to admit it, but I put the Rolling Stones song "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction" - as played by Devo - in there as a kind of in-joke. What represents excess most? Vegas. Vegas gangsters. Money. Greed, greed, greed. A reflection of Hollywood, too: budgets of films mushrooming until explosions occur. Casino shows where we're going to end up with that kind of thinking: in a hole in the ground, beaten to death with bats. Societies do spin off the edge for a while, and, as you say, it happened here and all around the world in the '80s. But the spiritual part of humanity has to be addressed. I actually think Western religions are in trouble, especially here in America. I'm concerned about Catholicism because there aren't enough priests, and some of those we do have are going through moral crises having to do with drinking and sexuality. Parishes are being closed down. The rites of the Church have changed, which is something I can't get over. I'm used to the Latin mass.

GF: Do you still worship?

MS: From time to time. When my parents died, I found comfort in the Church. But I question it. The interesting thing about Buddhism is, as the Dalai Lama says, you can take what you want from it and still be Christian. Utilize what gets you through the night, what gets you through the day. But you've got to cut right to the core of it. By which I mean greed and pride. You also have to recognize that, again, as the Dalai Lama says in the film, long and short lifetimes do not matter. We're all part of a whole thing that just keeps turning and turning and turning. Recently, I've been listening to [physicist] Stephen Hawking talk about the beginning of time and the cosmos, and there's something comforting about being reminded that we're part of something infinitely grander than ourselves. That doesn't mean I have no ego - it's enormous - but it's good to realize that you just have to fit in, rather than fight and kill to get - what? An extra million dollars? What would I do with an extra million? My kids are taken care of. My parents are gone now - I did the best I could with them. My brother's OK. So I'll spend it. [laughs]

The inner Scorsese

Interview, Jan, 1998 by Graham Fuller

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